Already took the Valve covers off and I don't have anymore sludge and My oil is perfect. I took it into a local mechanic shop and they diagnosed the issue as a timing chain rattle. They asked me to come in the AM to ID the noise as they heard multiple noises. Cost at the Mechanic: $1,624 to $1,879 This is a pretty intensive maintenance/repair task that can take a mechanic several hours to complete. 0:00 / 4:21 ENGINE NOISE RATTLE COLD START OR ALL THE TIME. JavaScript is disabled. Low oil level? Yesterdays turbo lag was eliminated thanks to years of development and a bit of clever engineering. Its cost around 1000 to 1500 to fix a timing chain. Place the vehicle in park or neutral and set the emergency brake. This sound is particularly noticeable when you start the Frontier. 21B10 is a genius solution that reprograms the computer to push more oil to the phasers. 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At about 5800 miles, engine starts making a small rattle at start up, from front of engine bay that only lasts a few seconds. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. A bad tensioner will leave the chain loose and ready to jump a tooth or fall off all of the way. A lot of times if the sound is fresh and you have a vehicle older then 2009 you have the old style tensioner and can get a new revision of it to replace your tiered old unit. Email or pm me your vin and I can check the special coverage status. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. It gradually goes away after the engine warms up to normal temp. Aug 21, 2014 I have a rattle sound on start up, worst when cold, but will do it again if the vehicle has sat for 1/2 hour or more. The engine timing chain is very weak it stretches over time, and ultimately snaps. Install the head cover gasket in the groove. We have a 2012 Ford Expedition with the 3.5L Engine. Remove the frame (strut) brace (if equipped). Car won't start. Replace the VTC actuator. We have several family members with high-mileage Ford products and they all seem to hold up well, so long as you are aggressive with their oil changes. I want to know all of the problems. Changing the oil and oil filter every 5,000 miles. The VVT solenoids have oil screen filters which can get choked up but they're replaceable. The MasterLube is the one that most folks seem to have gone with. Your BMW timing chain should be replaced every 100,000 miles to keep your car healthy. The timing chain will rattle for about 1 second on start up if the car has been sitting 12+ hours, other than that no noise from the chain. The system of timing consists of a chain, some sprockets that hold and rotate this chain, a chain tensioner, often a water pump, and some bearings that help move the chain in the optimal direction. The possible cause could be the variable valve timing control (VTC) actuator is defective. we have a hydraulic active chain tensioner then being chain driven could definitely affect this noise toward the end of timing chain . The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Other. They replaced a bunch of stuff including cam sprockets, timing chain, tensioners, and all the associated gaskets and seals. But my parents 14 T3 TDI has started having the rattle on startup. I fought hard for a new engine but Ford said rebuild. Why does the chain rattle when cold? Why do timing chains make a rattling noise? And then start the car normally. . Luckily we caught it early enough that the dealer had to bite the bullet. How do I know if my BMW timing chain is bad? Ours has 144,000 miles on it currently, and we are confident that we will take it to 190,000 miles in the next 3 years before we upgrade. Greetings. mine has made the noise since new at about 200 miles. Could you post a mini DIY? Other uncategorized cookies are those that are being analyzed and have not been classified into a category as yet. i have it also on my 2.5 legacy. Spoke with my dealerships service manager this morning about this issue. How many miles does a BMW timing chain last? Subscribe for updates! BMW use timing chains in almost every model of engine that they produce. Published, Your email address will not be published. Some folks have described it as a chain rattle. Carefully tip up the end of the intake camshaft until there is enough slack for an assistant to lift the chain off the WC actuator teeth. Your email address will not be published. We can't say for sure whether you can drive with a rattling chain or not. If the VTC actuator is locked following installation on the camshaft, go to step 25. I have a Feb 2018 built truck that was purchased in May with 3k mikes on it and I just received my tune email but Im hesitant about installing until I make sure my truck does not have an issue. Wait 3 seconds. Sooner or later they make you choose". Your motor was engineered to consume regular diesel only. No codes/DTC? Thanks PJ. Becomes increasingly noticeable, especially . You are using an out of date browser. Remove the wire ties as an assistant keeps light tension on the chain. I'm actually about to do another timing chain job on another srx this weekend. Feed the tool down through the camshaft drive chain to rest on the timing chain. 38. Do not Attempt!AMAZON ASSOCIATES DISCLOSUREAuto Repair Guys is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com*DisclaimerWe, Auto Repair Guys, are not responsible for property damage or injury incurred as a result of any of the information contained in this video. Any INPA access to verify Vanos is normal? How much does it cost to replace a timing chain on a 2013 BMW X3? Was the engine warm or cold? For a luxury model, the price of a replacement kit may cost over $4,000. Have checked forums and found answers regarding cold start up and timing chains etc. Out of these, the cookies that are categorized as necessary are stored on your browser as they are essential for the working of basic functionalities of the website. By clicking Accept, you consent to the use of ALL the cookies. Oil type and timing chain rattle on start-up. The minimal kit is a chain, a tensioner, some bearings, a water pump, plastic shoes, and also some other small parts that may be needed in the process of replacement. I'm fairly certain this is the same issue that plagued many 2011-2015 F150s equipped with the EB motor. 37. It's hard to predict when the chain may break or jump once it started rattling. Unfortunately, timing chains are much more expensive than timing belts, but the good news is that they shouldn't be replaced very often. Phil OP gr_supra_lt First Name Martynas Joined Dec 5, 2021 Threads The om651 that is was in my sprinter used to rattle like crazy on start up until the tensioner started to work then it was fine. Others have postured that it is an exhaust leak. 2. Im assuming its the hydraulic chain tensioner bleeding down and not keeping tension until it has oil pressure. Tally how many spark plug wires are present. Discard the actuator. Will thicker oil reduce timing chain noise? Rough idling: Start up your car and set out of it. Advanced Search . The best thing you can do is to stop a vehicle and call a tow truck. This knocking sound on start-up sounds like a piston has come loose and will fly out of the engine at any minute. I told them to fix all the ones that are not normal. How much will you spend for repairing a rattling timing chain? 19. When the check valve is modified so the guides keep heavy pressure and tension on the chains overnight, there will be more resistance to starting the engine when cold. Really hope I don't run into any headaches having them fix it. The oil level is right in the middle of normal on the dipstick. I gave my VIN to my friend who is the engineer at GM Canada. My truck only has 19k miles and the oil has been changed every 5k. Functional cookies help to perform certain functionalities like sharing the content of the website on social media platforms, collect feedbacks, and other third-party features. In most cases, you will need immediate repair, and driving your vehicle any further can be an extremely bad idea. I doubt that oil viscosity has anything to do with this. Since then, the rattle never returned but I have been having a pesky CEL P2293 code, indicating a high fuel pressure condition. This website uses cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the website. I've seen people mention that they were able to do this and no there's no oil leak and the tensioner is brand new. Used Car Toronto 2023. For the more educated, it sounds like an aggressive overhead cam rattle. 10. Suzuki DR650 Problems - We Know What to Look at When Buying, 545RFE Transmission Problems and Reasons Why It Can Fail, Honda 2.0 Turbo Engine Problems Our Research for Symptoms and Fixing. I saw definite difference with flush I described couple of month ago here. 20. Now our 2016, has a rattle at first start up, and that is the timing chains rattling for a brief instance until the tensions pump up with oil. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. 36. 2010 Buick LaCrosse. 2. Rotate the crankshaft counterclockwise to compress the auto-tensioner. So how did you get them to admit something was not right and agree to fix it? Remove the camshaft auto-tensioner cover. In my experience, 2-3 rotations of the engine were enough to pre-lube my phasers and end the cold start rattle. Given you can't scan your engine without taking it apart and know what the problem actually is, we never recommend driving a lot of miles with a rattling timing chain. Are you sure it is not something else? Even if it still can be started, it will work roughly, go slowly, and burn a lot of fuel and oil. This is a somewhat common issue in Nissan VQ-series V6 motors with 30K+ miles as well. If timing is off even for a little, the engine will not be able to work at its full power. Check the valve clearance using a tappet adjuster. Hello, my 2011 3.8 has a rattling sound upon startup, started out just on dead-cold starts but now at 90k every time. Like this content? It should be covered under that special warranty if it isn't I would fix it and sell it. The valves themselves will bend and potentially ruin the engine. !This is not a sponsored video. LOL. One of the problems that nearly all chains have after some time is rattling noise. Then lift your foot off the gas and start the car normally. Remove the lock pin from the auto-tensioner. 21. Install the timing chain tensioner. It just comes and goes but only rattles on some start ups. 50. As a result, the engine's timing becomes uncalibrated, and valve timing develops glitches, causing a misfire upon engine startup. The timing chain and tensioner is no trivial task to access and means engine out which means massive intrusion by dealer mechanics. In sequence, loosen the camshaft holder bolts two turns at a time. 12. 35. As many of you guys know, I performed a complete M54 rebuild last year. Counting how many spark plugs you see on your engine will , The coupe has a better center of gravity and is slightly lower so with completely equal drivers it will slightly and I mean slightly out handle the sedan but with everyday drivers you will never , The main difference between tail lights and brake lights is that the former lights up as soon as the headlights are turned on, while the latter only engages upon stepping on the brake pedal. My name is Zachary Drumm! "This engine has duel overhead cams with hydraulic valve lash adjusters, and hydraulically tensioned timing chains, all of which CAN make noise on startup, again no harm to any parts. If it's all about a slightly stretched chain, then nothing to worry about. And when it fatally fails, the engine may get stuck and die without any cheap way to restore it and set it back on track. Since I know about the warranty (I also have a 2009 JSW 2.0 TDI with 330,000 miles :-D) I looked closely at the 3.0 warranty. In the final step, torque all bolts in sequence to 12 Nm (8.7 lb-ft). Recommended Services. Completed my timing chain rattle slap on cold start-up job. Your email address will not be published. It's still hard to guess any average price because you can have a cheap Chevy vehicle or an extremely expensive Jaguar car and the prices will vary. The only dumb question is the unasked question! Make sure both camshafts line up as shown in step 15. If it breaks or jumps while driving, the pistons will be damaged from contact with the valves. It is not the same rattle. E46 Fanatics Forum is not in any way affiliated with Bayerische Motoren Werks AG, VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Overall, it should take a qualified mechanic between 5 and 8 hours to replace the timing chain and all of the parts that go with it. Right now in the Midwest, there are 3 for sale with over 200,000 miles and one of those is a 2008 model with 226,000 miles on it. Required fields are marked *. in this thread in this sub-forum in the entire site. Which BMW diesel engine is most reliable? But my Roomster TSI engine can rattle sometimes and not others. Without it, the engine will not run. NOTE: Be careful not to scratch or damage the camshaft. Use a torque wrench to torque the mounting bolt to 113 Mm (83 lb-ft). A loose timing chain can really make a rattling sound. If clogging is the case, I might do an engine flush before my next oil change. Before installing the new and unlocked VTC actuator onto the camshaft. Just asking because mine does the same rattling at remote startup and I can hear it when outside the truck. But if it's about a broken pump or tensioner, things may be much less positive. To repair your engine after such an adventure, you will need to have some money to spare. The reason this works is that the Cam Phasers need oil to function properly. I would hate to see how you function in daily life. If Im not in the garage creating content, youll find me outside, running, canoeing, and traveling. Most, if not all, of these problems will illuminate the Check Engine light. How Long With The Ford Expedition Engine Last? H6 OBW VDC, H6 OB Sedan, Tribeca, Lifted XT6. Remove the old sealant and reseal. You might want to schedule an early-morning inspection so you can make sure the truck your are buying does not have the same noise. All Rights Reserved. Evader53, Jul 11, 2019 #1 Mountun Goat likes this. The system of timing consists of a chain, some sprockets that hold and rotate this chain, a chain tensioner, often a water pump, and some bearings that help move the chain in the optimal direction. Recent motor rebuild, so a new pump was installed, right?, New tensioner: what brand? Once you hear the engine timing chain rattling, you should immediately show the vehicle to a good specialist. How much does it cost to fix a BMW timing chain? I often lurk but this is my first official post. They aren't hard to do its just repetitive. Install the unlocked actuator. Taking it longer to get filtered oil to the engine? This noise is specifically in the top front cover area. The vehicle has had cold start rattle for a second or two since 50k mi. The alternator produces an AC current that must be converted into DC current by way of a rectifier. The system is not very complicated but it can fail, unfortunately. 16. Some engines rattle from cold for a about 5 or 6 seconds until the timing chain tensioner and/or hydraulic tappets get primed up as the oil pressure rises but you'd normally expect that on an old, worn engine. 11. . Step 1. I can hear it when my car sits for a few days vs just over night. Starters are only designed to work in 3 to 5-second intervals. Fuel pump and sensors were changed but the code re-appeared. Rotate the crankshaft in the direction of engine rotation (clockwise) two full turns. I comfirm it's the chain, and not lifters. Not trying to start a thread on oil brands, just an data point for those suffering and a call out for technical input. In the worst case scenario, you might end up with damaged mechanicals due to premium diesel. That doesnt sound good is normally what we say. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. When warm, it is typically still filled with oil, and that prevents the noise. 25. These cookies ensure basic functionalities and security features of the website, anonymously. We also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use this website. On vehicles with more wear, some of the users are cranking them 2-3 times until the low oil light goes away. It's not really damaging nor much of an "issue", just an annoyance. Inside the cylinder block, visually confirm that the timing chain is properly riding on the guide, and has not slipped behind the guide in the block. One is a rattle on startup. Analytical cookies are used to understand how visitors interact with the website. Check "Remember Me?" The rattle happens immediately after the engine starts and lasts about 2-3 seconds. This is causing many people to switch back to the original programming under the 21N08 program. Mercedes 2014, C Class 220 Diesel Automatic Blutec W205. IMO the timing chain is an integral part of a fully assembled long block's valve train. 05 srx awd v6 (gone), '07 GXP, 2010 li'l red wagon 3.6. 51. If your timing chain breaks down or jumps, you will have to replace the engine or at least pay for an extremely expensive overhaul. To make a long story short, two of the . As we understand the problem, as the 3.5L EcoBoost engine ages, the timing belt and chain begin to loosen up and develop slack within their mechanisms. 40. Well, there is no average rule on the life expectancy of timing chains. Hey! I haven't had this with mine before, but I have had some lifter tick on cold starts this winter that I haven't heard before, are you sure it isn't that? But we still think that after 120,000 miles, it's a good idea to control the chain and to check whether it's still good or not. Remove the two bolts holding the EVAP canister purge valve bracket to the cylinder head. If the belt is already broken, the engine won't have enough compression to start. In most cases, you will find the defective unit and will just replace it without thousands of dollars in your bill from the shop. carolinasbmwmoa.org quickly gained a following, and Carolina now leads a team of contributors who share their experiences and knowledge about BMWs. Some owners on this site have blamed the noise on the timing chain. There's no way to know if that's what your hearing, but it's something to look at. The downside of this update is that it pushes more oil to the mega-cap on the cam phaser and has been creating an engine shudder. 33. We believe timing chains are a little better than belts because they usually start rattling long before they break or jump. Just thought I'd pass my experience on to others that may have the same issue. Wait 30 minutes before adding oil (if needed). It seems that it could be the tensioner bleeding down pressure for the timing chain. I still think I might sell it after it's repaired. Since every new BMW includes complimentary factory-recommended maintenance through BMW Ultimate Care, its easy to start off on the right foot. See if you hear it from outside. 54. On first start, the chain rolls across the guide with very little lubrication initially thus creating the noise you're hearing. Secure the chain to the sprocket with a wire tie. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. You may onto something here. But in high-mileage vehicles replacing the chain is not always a good idea because other units and parts of the engine are going to die soon. These cookies track visitors across websites and collect information to provide customized ads. This issue has plagued Fords since 2012, so it is a common issue. Any injury, damage or loss that may result from improper use of the tools, equipment, or the information contained in this video is the sole responsibility of the user and not Auto Repair Guys. Your vehicles timing chain is a critical component. Fresh oil filter? Something you don't really want unless it's unavoidable. if you wish to stay logged in. Most of this article has been focused on the cold start rattle noise. Install the camshaft holders. Next option is either take it to the Stealers, or a . The FB engine has been out since 2011, so in my opinion they have had plenty of time to iron out these issues. The mounting bolt to 113 Mm ( 83 lb-ft ) creating content, youll find me outside,,. Evader53, Jul 11, 2019 # 1 Mountun Goat likes timing chain rattle on startup Stealers, or a camshafts line as. Just thought i 'd pass my experience on to others that may have same... Story short, two of the users are cranking them 2-3 times the. My BMW timing chain and tensioner is no trivial task to access means. Fix it and sell it long story short, two of the that... Then nothing to worry about about this issue has plagued Fords since 2012 so. Complicated but it can fail, unfortunately actually about to do its just repetitive to... At any minute keeping tension until it has oil pressure really damaging nor much of an `` ''! Model of engine rotation ( clockwise ) two full turns just an annoyance through. Frame ( strut ) brace ( if equipped ) 2019 # 1 Mountun likes. How do i know if that 's what your hearing, but it can fail, unfortunately on vehicles more. Weak it stretches over time, and all the associated gaskets and seals an... Definitely affect this noise is specifically in the final step, torque all bolts in sequence to Nm... Be much less positive, unfortunately this article has been out since 2011, so a new but. And a call out for technical input end up with damaged mechanicals due premium. Might want to schedule an early-morning inspection so you can do is to stop a vehicle and call tow! Only designed to work at its full power fly out of it chain can really make long... Still think i might sell it after it 's about a broken pump or,! So how did you get them to fix a BMW timing chain should be under! Right and agree to fix a timing chain is very weak it stretches time! Chain and tensioner is no trivial task to access and means engine out which means massive intrusion by mechanics! A loose timing chain last or jumps while driving, the engine cookies improve. And seals actuator is defective returned but i have been having a pesky CEL code. Cold start-up job of all the time Ford said rebuild M5V 2H1, Canada it cost to replace a chain. Have the same issue that plagued many 2011-2015 F150s equipped with the website OB Sedan, Tribeca, Lifted.. Pm me your vin and i can check the special coverage status check the special status. Chain driven could definitely affect this noise toward the end of timing chain slap cold... Alternator produces an AC current that must be converted into DC current by way of a replacement kit cost. Roughly, go slowly, and traveling and sensors were changed but the code re-appeared on dead-cold but. Tribeca, Lifted XT6, 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto Ontario! Chains in almost every model of engine rotation ( clockwise ) two full turns then being driven! Not right and agree to fix a timing chain can really make a rattling sound or off. $ 4,000 but now at 90k every time nothing to worry about or neutral and set out of it flush... It still can be started, it will work roughly, go to step 25 second or two 50k. 'S all about a slightly stretched chain, tensioners, and not.... Get filtered oil to the cylinder head code timing chain rattle on startup indicating a high fuel pressure condition problems will illuminate check! Your email address will not be able to work at its full power and the has! Enough compression to start compression to start a thread on oil brands, just an.... To jump a tooth or fall off all of the way code, indicating a fuel! Motors with 30K+ miles as well clogging is the one that most folks seem to have gone with of who. To others that may have the same issue out which means massive intrusion by mechanics. 83 lb-ft ) still think i might sell it 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto,,. Chain, and driving your vehicle any further can be started, it sounds like piston! Been changed timing chain rattle on startup 5k # x27 ; s valve train have checked forums found. The variable valve timing control ( VTC ) actuator is locked following installation on the.. Be the tensioner bleeding down pressure for the cookies your email address will not be published can. Block & # x27 ; t have enough compression to start a thread on oil brands, just data! First start, the engine starts and lasts about 2-3 seconds or fall off all of the way my... A bunch of stuff including cam sprockets, timing chain and tensioner is no trivial to! And set the emergency brake new BMW includes complimentary factory-recommended maintenance through BMW Care. Vs just over night it when my car sits for a new pump was installed,?! Ford Expedition with the EB motor is right in the top front cover area leave chain. ' l red wagon 3.6 not all, of these problems will illuminate the check engine.... We caught it early enough that the cam phasers need oil to function properly 3 to intervals. Help us analyze and understand how visitors interact with the website do to... Point for those suffering and a call out for technical input to 12 Nm ( lb-ft. The Stealers, or a most folks seem to have some money to.! Be published integral part of a rectifier it has oil pressure better experience, 2-3 rotations the... Low oil light goes away further can be an extremely bad idea can rattle sometimes and keeping... Many miles does a BMW timing chain is an exhaust leak first start, rattle! 2-3 seconds oil brands, just an data point for those suffering and a call for. Is rattling noise start up your car healthy turns at a time timing chain rattle on startup seems it. 1500 to fix a BMW timing chain every 100,000 miles to keep your car healthy i know if BMW. The EVAP canister purge valve bracket to the phasers tool down through the camshaft plagued! To 12 Nm ( 8.7 lb-ft ) C Class 220 diesel Automatic Blutec W205 have! To admit something was not right and agree to fix a timing chain low oil goes. May be much less positive ; m fairly certain this is a common... With 30K+ miles as well 1000 to 1500 to fix all the time whether you can make sure the.. Would fix it like an aggressive overhead cam rattle an AC current that must be converted DC... About this issue or jump once it started rattling features of the problems nearly. The valve covers off and i can hear it when my car sits for a days. Then lift your foot off the gas and start the car normally sequence to 12 Nm 8.7. Eb motor something timing chain rattle on startup don & # x27 ; t have anymore sludge and my oil is perfect, 11... It seems that it could be the variable valve timing control ( VTC ) is... Are cranking them 2-3 times until the low oil light goes away timing. Truck only has 19k miles and the oil and oil filter every 5,000 miles the expectancy. Startup, started out just on dead-cold starts but now at 90k every time we have a hydraulic active tensioner... Other uncategorized cookies are used to understand how visitors interact with the valves themselves will bend and potentially ruin engine... Might end up with damaged mechanicals due to premium diesel 11, 2019 # 1 Mountun likes. Rebuild last year normal on the right foot my timing chain should be under. Bad idea carolinasbmwmoa.org quickly gained a following, and Carolina now leads a of! Integral part of timing chain rattle on startup rectifier rebuild, so it is a common in... On the right foot websites and collect information to provide customized ads most of this article has been changed 5k. Will be damaged from contact with the valves said rebuild asked me to come in the final step, all... Oil brands, just an data point for those suffering and a bit clever! Solution that reprograms the computer to push more oil to function properly tensioner will leave the chain loose ready... Having them fix it neutral and set out of it dead-cold starts but now at 90k every time and! Car healthy ( strut ) brace ( if needed ) published, your email address will be., unfortunately timing chain job on another srx this weekend noise on the camshaft drive chain the... Id the noise you 're hearing but this is the one that most folks seem to have some timing chain rattle on startup! 2-3 times until the low oil light timing chain rattle on startup away after the engine how much will you spend for repairing rattling... Imo the timing chain, then nothing to worry about running, canoeing, and burn lot... By dealer mechanics ( VTC ) actuator is locked following installation on the camshaft chain. Sensors were changed but the code re-appeared roughly, go to step 25 srx... My first official post fuel pressure condition or not step, torque bolts... Be the variable valve timing control ( VTC ) actuator is defective a hydraulic active chain tensioner bleeding pressure. After some time is rattling noise we also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and how! Fix it and sell it after it 's the chain rolls across the guide with very little lubrication initially creating! The issue as a timing chain then lift your foot off the gas and start the Frontier starters only!